Friday, October 30, 2009

Michelle Put These Thoughts In My Head


Okay. First, go read this if you have not yet done so:

http://wwwjusteatit.blogspot.com/2009/10/be-bwave-fursday-or-be-bwave-fwyday_29.html

It was written by our lovely Michelle and I just can't stop thinking about it and it is pulling thoughts out of me like crazy and I've already commented THREE times on it and now I want to talk about it some more.

The long story short is that Michelle is a pediatric nurse practitioner and she is talking in that piece about a drug-addicted mother who has given birth to ten children, all of whom are in state custody. The mother won a lottery which gave her $100,000 and so she has the money to support her habit. Her children are not what our society would describe as highly adoptable because not only were they mostly born with cocaine in their urine but are black. These children have come through the newborn nursery where Michelle sees babies after birth.

Okay. Let's get some stuff out of the way: I have great compassion for this mother because something in her life happened which was so horrible that she has been able to ignore the strongest emotion and instinct that I believe a woman can have, which is to protect her children and keep them with her if at all possible.

BUT- does this mean that in the interest of not getting into a person's freedoms at the level of ordering her sterilized or forcing her to have a birth control device inserted, she should be allowed to go back out and have who-knows-how-many-more-babies who will have, at best, a vague sliver of a shot at a life of health and happiness?

See- I don't think so. Not because I am not passionately compassionate for the woman but because I feel more of that for the children. I think about tiny babies who will not be delivered into the arms of a mother who desperately wants them, but who desperately wants to get out of there to get more drugs. I think of them having to go through withdrawal, I think of them being taken to foster care, I think of them growing up knowing that their mother abandoned them at birth, knowing that they have many siblings whose lives they will not be a part of and I don't think that the woman is practicing a victimless crime by abusing drugs.

Michelle said that her first reaction was to feel all sorts of Rush Limbaugh-like thoughts. That this is wrong and should be stopped. But then she tried to think about how the mother feels and tried to imagine WHAT the mother would feel.
She put it so well:

How does she feel? Is she tormented? Is she in unbelievable psychic and emotional pain? Was she brutally sexually abused as a child? Has she considered suicide? Does she not care at all? Does she not love her babies? Does she hate them? Does she want them back? Does she worry that they will spend their childhoods in foster care? cause there's not a chance in hell they'll get adopted Or is she thankful that they're in foster care?
Can she care?

And she cited me in a post I wrote about a mother who abandoned her baby in a hospital bathroom. I feel so honored that Michelle would use that post to try and make herself feel more compassion for this mother. To try to understand why she did what she did. But I have to say that
I think this situation is more complex if only because of the number of children abandoned to state care.
I don't think there is any rationalization for allowing this woman to keep on having children. There. I said it, as Michelle might say.

I wonder why the mother has not been arrested for drug use. I don't know the law on this, but it seems to me that anyone testing positive for drug use can be, if not arrested, then at least put into a facility to help her try and get off drugs. I say "try" because if she doesn't want to get off drugs, the odds are very low that she will. But come on- you have to start somewhere.

There's just so much in this story that makes us uncomfortable. The unadoptibility of the children because of their race, for one.
As Michelle pointed out, black children are very much apt to be passed over in the adoption process. Why else would so many Americans go to all the effort and trouble to go all the way to China to spend vast amounts of money to adopt a Chinese girl when there are so many children here desperate for adoption who are of different (darker) races? This is a sad and hideous truth. And we, as mostly bleeding-heart liberals here at Bless Our Hearts (well, at least that's how I describe myself) try to pretend that race doesn't matter which is fine if we're talking about ourselves but sadly delusional if we are talking about the realities which exist in our country.
So there's race.

And of course there's drug use. I tend to lean toward the libertarian position of drug use. You want to ruin your life and loose your teeth? Go ahead and use meth. You want to feel love for all of humankind and dance your ass off? There's a drug for that- Ecstasy. Want to feel a little mellow? Try weed. You want to flush your life down the toilet? Do all the crack and whatever-form-of-cocaine you can peddle your ass for. Want to pretend you're a jazz musician? Heroin will help you on your way.

You get my drift. We all use drugs of one form or another, legal and non-, except for the purest eschewers of alcohol, caffeine, sugar and chocolate among us.

How about irresponsible sex? Again- I have no need to tell anyone who they should or should not have sex with and I can't even begin to say that some reasons for sex are better than others. In a perfect world, having sex as a part of love is the ideal but sex is odd and a very powerful thing and as we speak I am certain that millions of people around the world are having sex that has nothing to do with love.

Not my business.

And honestly, it isn't my business what this mother does or doesn't do except for the fact that as a part of society, I would like to hope that I would look out for the best interests of children, however that may be. And this woman's actions are having the most profound negative effect on her babies that anyone could imagine.

BUT, and again, I have to say but...where do we draw the line? There are lines drawn, of course, about what constitutes parenting so horrible that society must step in and take the children for their own safety. Neglect, abuse, etc. And I would assume that this woman's actions fit into all the categories therein. And I didn't get the idea from Michelle's post that the woman has fought for her children. But can I look at another mother whose ideas about parenting are vastly different from mine and accuse her of being a bad mother?
No. I cannot.

I don't want to be a Rush Limbaugh groupie here either. And I'm not. In the slightest way.
However, if he said that this woman should be prevented from having more children, I would have to agree with him.

And there- that is my truth.
Not because I disapprove of the woman's actions or lifestyle. They are the result of things I don't know or understand. They are part of a very serious and hard-to-treat disease.

And I'll go on record as saying that I don't think Octo Mom should have had eight babies at once, either because I don't think she did it out of love or sanity and I don't think she's able to take care of all her children the way children should be taken care of. If she really wanted a whole bunch of kids, she could have adopted them. I think I know of ten siblings that need a really good loving home and she wouldn't have been risking their lives to bring them into the world in such an absurd way.

I know I've made some pretty bold statements here. I know I've probably crossed some lines which others may perceive as rights and freedoms and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
But this is the way I feel.

Because while the mother's rights and freedoms and liberty and pursuit of happiness are to be respected, the fact remains that she is bringing innocent life into the world which she has no desire to take care of, much less love and raise and provide for or try in any way to guarantee those same rights for them.

Well. That's my soapbox today. Michelle- I love you for writing about this in the first place. You are, as you say, in a position to observe some of the realities of life that some of us, in our little liberal palaces don't directly see. You observe, you relate, you make us search our hearts.

And there's part of me which says I have no business writing about this because it's not my story and I really have nothing to offer but my feelings, many times removed from the reality of it all. But once again, it's something I can't stop thinking about and mostly what I'm thinking about is a tiny baby, lying in a plastic nursery box, crying for his or her mother and never, never, NEVER going to get her. Not her arms, not her milk, not her love, not her support, not her caring, not her touch, not her voice, not her heartbeat, ever again.

And that thought just fucks me up. We all know this is not the only time this sort of thing has happened, which just fucks me up even more. This is just one I've personally heard of from someone involved. And so when I speak of "the mother" I am speaking of many more mothers, of course. Although this one's situation is somewhat unique in that she won the lottery and appears to have an incredible fertile reproductive system.

And of course I haven't even begun to discuss the fathers of these children mostly because I don't know any of that situation at all. But of course it's not right that we should be discussing the mother and her problems and shortcomings without pointing out that men got her pregnant and then did not participate in the result. Not fair, but like racism, a part of reality. Women are the ones who get pregnant. And yes, if the father should be able to walk away, I suppose the woman should be able to as well.
In my perfect world, neither would happen.
This ain't my perfect world, though, is it?
I suppose in my "practically perfect world," if the woman had to be sterilized or somehow prevented in having more children, so should every man who has impregnated her.
But there you go- stepping over boundaries which should not be stepped upon.

So in the end, I don't have any answers except to say that children are generally the last to have rights. Their vulnerability is immense. They cannot speak for themselves and so we have to.
Sometimes it's time to just cut the crap and say, "This is wrong."
And I could be wrong. I could be so far from right that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. But this is my little blog, my little place in the world I can say what I feel.
So that's what I'm doing.

What do you feel? There are so many parts of this sad, cruel puzzle. Which parts have I missed? Which parts do you see through the lenses of your own experience?
I would like to know.

From Lloyd with a questioning heart....Ms. Moon

37 comments:

  1. Oh this face! So cute and poor baby! I just wanna hold him tight...I'm sure you've got that under control though ;)

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  2. Ms. Moon,
    I congratulate Michelle on her compassion (she is a doll), but admittedly, I am not feeling very compassionate towards the mother.

    Love,

    SB

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  3. I had already read the post, but went back in to read it again this morning and finally commented, twice. So if you want to know what I really think, you can go read it there because damn, I used up all my energy on that.

    But-and I can't believe I am going to disagree with you, my lovely heart-chosen mother!-the only difference between the octo-mom (barring the whole nefarious how-she-GOT-8-children) and the Duggars and the whole Jon and Kate and their 8 kids? the ONLY difference is a reality show. If it is okay for the duggars and jon and kate to have a whole passel of kids, then it is okay for everyone.

    and that is where it gets dicey; how can we (the colelctive we) tell one person, regardless of how the babies were conceived and how they are being supported, that they shouldn't have had that many kids when we see two other high-profile families being rewarded for the same thing? Do I personally believe that the ocot-mom should have had all those kids? No; but neither do I think that it is my place. I mean, I have four already, and we are poor, but I would love love love chew off my left arm to have another one. So what is the difference? Would I want someone to point their finger and say to me, you have too many already and it would be the socially irresponsible thing to have another one.

    sigh....so many, many layers, isn't there?

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  4. I'm with you unequivocally, actually. Let's cut the crap and say that this is wrong. I might look on it as similar to treatment for a sex offender -- chemical castration? Either that or lock her up for breaking the law repeatedly and make sure that she doesn't have access to a man.

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  5. i dont feel compassion towards the mother...i know a lot people who take drugs from time to time or on a regular base...most of them still live a normal life and u would never guess that they are using drugs...it might be that there is a sad story behind a addiction...but still...i know i sound ugly..but actually i dont give a f* about what adults doing with their lives..but if you have children you goddamned have to funktion..to care..to be responsible...to be a parent..drink all night long, fuck all night long, sniff as much cocain as you can affiord..i dont mind as long there is breakfast for the children on the table in time and they have clean clothes and you take care that they are happy...


    i have to confess..that even mor ethen the circumstances the babies are born in this ". Her children are not what our society would describe as highly adoptable because not only were they mostly born with cocaine in their urine but are black" shocks me much more...i know i dont look half-caste..but my dad is black brazilian while mymother is french..i think its horrible that your color can still be a stone in your lifes way

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  6. Court- That is not my grandson nor any baby I know. I got the image off of google images. It was a sad, crying baby and that's what I wanted.
    That's what I was thinking about when I wrote the post.

    Ms. Bastard- At some point, I think the compassion for the mother is not the point any more.

    Kori- There ARE so many layers. And I think OctoMom went into her bizarre pregnancy thinking she could GET a reality show. Honestly, I do. And I have no idea about the Duggars and all that crap because I don't watch it. But from what I hear, those children are taken care of, loved, and nurtured. They have a family and a support system. OctoMom? Not so much.
    And you- if you did have another baby, or three, you would figure out a way to take care of them. One way or another. You would because you are that way. And besides that, you stop, you think, you KNOW you want more children, but you KNOW what your responsibility to them would be and you KNOW what your responsibility to the children you already have is. You honor and acknowledge that and proceed from there. There is no comparison. That's what I think. I am not sure at heart we disagree as much as you may think.

    Elizabeth- Exactly. A crime is being committed here and I am not talking about drug abuse.

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  7. I think there are 2 aspects: people having babies they absolutely love and adore but can't afford to care for in the financial sense, and people who have babies because they're high/drunk/stupid and don't give a shit.

    I've been a mom in group #1 for a time after my divorce. And I was glad for the assistance available but never intended to use it as a crutch for the rest of my life.
    I think that's what assistance should be: temporary, to be used as a step to get your shit together.

    I don't have compassion at all for group #2.

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  8. Its a truely a sad shame when children are involved- but I think most people dont understand that the drug users arent thinking rationally like us. They are sort of under a cloud/haze. Their one fundamental reason for living is the next time they high or whatever. If youve never been around a junkie you just dont know. They will promise the world -they'll change, they'll stay clean but then the love of the drug surpasses any thinking. I SO dont condone it but junkies need help not sterilization - seriously.
    Lastly, people go to China for adoption because quite honestly its easier to get a baby than it is here. Stacks of paperwork, interviews, social work ,etc,etc and not to mention the cost.Kids are 'cheaper' overseas - Its not a color thing. People want a baby , thats it.

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  9. Such a big subject. After reading your and Michelle's posts, my first simple thoughts were to just wonder how a person could be so selfish and cruel to innocent babies. It looked the same to me as a child abuser beating a child. I caught myself and since I don't know the person who mothered all these babies and only know her outward actions, I cannot really say with certainty what she is like as a person. And really it doesn't matter, because her actions are what matter. Regardless if something terrible happened to the mother or not, which is sad in and of itself, and probably something horrible did when she was young, she needs to be stopped. Sterilization? Dang, that's a big order, but doesn't it sound logical? I don't know. Obviously she's not watching out for herself for whatever reason (she isn't in her own body because of the drugs, she doesn't care, she's given up, whatever), when she's getting pregnant with all these kids and if she can't control it, shouldn't somebody? That just doesn't sound right, but at the same time it does, at least with her in particular. I don't know. Instead of murdering people, which is something she would be stopped for, she's giving life, only she's giving life over and over and over again so those lives she's birthing can live in hell in the foster system, most likely. It seems pretty equal to me. Wow, that's just a horrible story and it should be talked about.

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  10. There was some talk about charging women who drink and use heavily during pregnancy as being able to be charged for child abuse. (Distributing controlled substances to a minor... or something) I think mommma falls under this umbrella.

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  11. Where can you draw the line?

    8? 5? or 1 child?

    Heroin? Cannabis? Beer use?

    I have all the sympathy in the world for the children left to fend for themselves, or those who have to grow up in the face of that kind of shit, but it still goes against every gut feeling I own to tell someone what they can or can't do with their own body.

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  12. Rachel- I think there are many categories but those are definitely two big ones.

    3Xthejoy- I understand that about addiction. I do. But I don't think the result of the addiction in this case is a victimless crime. I think the children should be considered. And really? It's cheaper to go to China and easier than to adopt here? I don't know the statistics on that one.

    Ms. Fleur- And there again- another issue. I would not want to get to that slippery slope. It's too much for me.

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  13. So there is a young women out there with a ton of money, a promiscuous side, and no desire to be a parent? Can I get some digits? Holla!

    Seriously, replace "her" with "him" and it's not so shocking. Where are all the fathers? Where is the clever gov't. lawyer that sues her for the cost of raising her kids?

    And $100,000 ain't much when you've got a problem; there'll be a second half to this story, good or bad or worse.

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  14. Danielle- Yes, well, welcome to the ugly realities of race in America. We are not all racist, by any means, but it is more common than you would believe or you would want to believe. And I pretty much agree with you on the drug use.

    Daddy X- And yet, you had such a hard time with the abortion issue. You don't want to tell anyone what they can or cannot do with their own body and yet, the idea of abortion makes you highly uncomfortable. That's where I am with this one. We all have our areas of emotion overcoming logic. Stir in human rights and freedom and so forth and it's a big conundrum and one I doubt we will ever solve.

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  15. Magnum- I did mention the father(s) and talk about the unfairness there a bit. But that is a subject in and of itself.
    I fear there will be many parts to this story. Ten, at least.

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  16. I think it's exactly he same for me.

    I know in both cases what I would love to be the solution for the children, but in neither case would I dictate what someone should do with their body.

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  17. I don't mean your consideration of the dads Ms. Moon, I meant their own. What the hell is wrong with the system that doesn't track down them? And say, oh by the way, at least ONE of you has to do this.

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  18. Daddy X- But in this case, there are living children who suffer. That's what I see as a difference. But you're right- where do you draw a line? And when? I think that sometimes a line should be drawn.
    I could honestly be very, very wrong.

    Magnum- Gotcha. You're right.

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  19. Definitions again ;-) and ours differ.

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  20. X-box made a point I kept wondering about but didn't mention too when I was typing my first comment. Where's the line drawn on how many kids? It's really an impossible problem to solve (at least in my piddly little brain) because every situation is different and the reasons for having that many kids is different. Hers is so obviously not "right" since they're all in foster care. But then it's also "wrong" to tell someone what they have to do with their own body. It's just frustrating to not see a clear cut solution. No matter what, that mother is going to still be a mess and needs treatment, like 3x said. I am going to be thinking about this one for awhile. I can't even go where Mags went with the dads, because that's a whole other, yet equally important part of the puzzle, which is already too big.

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  21. well..i have spend a lot time in the states when i was younger..mainly in the dirty south...and i know there are a lot bad people but there are equaly good and wonderfull people...so..like everywhere..every country has its ugly faces

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  22. I think so many thoughts on this subject and everything you commented on that I can't quite get them all put together. I just know that the woman should be sterilized. I feel so sorry for the babies she has given birth to. I'm angry with God for giving her the luck to win the lottery. If that win would have changed her life for the better, then what a great story that would make, but it didn't, and it's not.

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  23. I think one of the first things that need to be addressed is this: I can perhaps better understand the dynamics of addiction where others may not be able to-and I say this not because that makes me BETTER, just have firsthand knowledge; drugs and alcohol don't make people operate in a haze, or cloud judgement. An addict, when in the grips of his/her active disease, have no more control over that disease than a baby having control over his bowels. I don't exxagerate. So when a junkie is in need of a fix, they will do anything and everything to get it. In that state, there ARE no thoughts or morality or legality or responsibility, there are only thoughts of how to obtain the high. So people can sit back and judge this woman or any addict all they want, but they aren't going to get it. Even those who have been married to an alcoholic or addict can't truly get it, because they haven't been living in the skin. Ther IS help avaialable; I and many others are here to prove that, daily. However, regardless of whether it is available or not, how do any of us know whether or not she has ACCESS to that help? Does anyone here know how much a rehab program is? They tend to start out at approximately $8,000/28 day stay. And those are for inpatient facilities, and not even especially good ones-just a place to stay to maybe get on the right path. Maybe. And then what? They turn her loose and without a huge support network and a way to get to meetings and some kind of stability to fall back on, this woman has not a chance in hell of making it. So that is where my compassion comes in. Even if she wanted help, which she may very well not, statistically speaking her chances are very, very slim under the best of circumstances. Seriously.

    I am not condoning the birth of ten drug-addicted babies; not at all. But on the other post, Ms. Moon, you said something about how "she has money, she could get her tubes tied," or buy condoms. And to a point, I agree with you. That said, I am a middle-class woman with health insurance and access to good medical care-and I can't affor to have MY tubes tied; it would take a hell of a lot more than her $1000 a month to be able to afford to have that done. And sure she could buy condoms; so could the men who are fucking her. I think that again, we tend to operate under the assumption that she and millions of other people have the education and advantages that the majority of us have. She already has three strieks against her: she is black, she is poor, and I would be surprised if she even had a high school education-so we can't assume that she has even been given the opportunity to learn anything different.

    I hate to see this just as much as anyone; I worked for about a year in a transitional care unit for babies who were born addicted to drugs (there were others there who for a variety of reasons couldn't be released to go to a home, but 90% were babies with FAS or drug addiction). It was horrible; not only horrible for the babies at birth but also for their entire future. No, it fucking sucks-it breaks my heart and it makes me mad and I personally want to rip the womb out of this woman with my fucking teeth, okay? But that does not mean that ANY of us have the right to say that she deserves no compassion, nor does it give the government the right to tell her that she has to be sterilized.

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  24. There's nothing to do but find a place to act and show up.

    Today I went to a day program for developmentally diabled adults. The students there made a gift for a group of AmeriCorp community service members I will see next week.

    The AmeriCorps members mentor a hundred of homeless and runaway youth.

    Some of these runaway youth in turn are spending an hour a day reading with 7-10 year olds.

    What will the 7-10 year olds do?

    Great things one day.

    Crack, 10 babies in foster care, easy lottery money. None of us would know about it if Michelle wasn't showing up.

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  25. First, thank goodness that picture is not Owen!

    I don't know what the solutions are either, Ms. Moon, but I sure can see some of the problems. Me too, with the questioning heart, because but for the grace of god or luck or whatever, go I.
    Some of the drugs on the streets today have addiction rates that only a fraction of the population can fend off, it is a scourge upon society, that and unplanned pregnancy. Forget abortion - stop conception stop unwanted, unloved babies, that's my battle cry. Birth control is the key to everything. I wish things weren't the way they are, and I wish I knew what, besides fussing, to do.

    At least we are having these conversations, yes? It is something, at least, to talk about what we see and ask these questions. I wish I knew what to do next.

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  26. I used to go walking with a nurse friend who worked with women with high risk pregnancies and had many stories like this. Not 10 babies, but repeats. I just cringed and felt really confused about the whole thing. Pregnancy seems so exhausting and physically and emotionally taxing. I am curious why she doesn't use birth control or get abortions. Is it because she is so strung out on drugs and just can't make rational decisions? I just wonder psychologically what's going on. Usually when people are repeating the same harmful behavior they are trying to resolve something. Does part of her like carrying these babies? Does she like having that life inside her? Does she get treated differently, more tenderly when she is pregnant? Is this the only time anyone seems to care for her? I imagine she would have a psych consult in the hospital and have options given to her, but I wonder if anyone has ever given HER the OPTION of sterilization. That seems like the place to start. She might jump at the chance? Maybe she's tired of the craziness too. If she can't get off the drugs, maybe she'd like to get off this baby making cycle. But is that even something the hospital could offer?
    It is all so sad and heartwrenching.

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  27. Nicol- I skipped you! I agree with you on the if she were committing murder thing she would be stopped. I don't know.

    Danielle- What part of the "dirty south"? You're right. There are all sorts of people everywhere and believe me- racial prejudice does not just exist in the south here.

    Rebecca- See- I can't go there with the being angry with God idea. That woman won a lot of lotteries- lotteries like not being raised to know she has value, for one thing, in some horrible way. But then, I'm not a believer that God causes things to happen.

    Kori- I think you agree with Adrienne who commented over at Michelle's that compassion has to be universal for it to be real. I love you for being so strong in your beliefs.

    Juancho- You're right. On every level. And I love YOU for the way you just take it on and do it.
    Although I think we would know about all those things if Michelle hadn't brought them up- they just wouldn't have been so immediate, so elegantly and realistically discussed.

    Mel- Yes. Birth control. But again- how do you get someone who is in the throes of addiction to recognize the need?

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  28. Been wanting to comment all day, but my stupid handheld device refused to cooperate.

    And now I have too many thoughts in my head to make any sense of it all.

    All I know is that compassion is the only magic that allows me to weather the unjust and inexplicable, and prevents me from turning into a bitter and evil troll or Nurse Ratchet.

    And judgement feels very burdensome to me.

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  31. Sorry... I spazzed and triple published that comment.

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  32. Bethany- nurses are saints on this earth. As are teachers. The good ones, at least and there are so very many.

    Learner- Okay. I'll take that one on.

    Michelle- I know. And I agree that it has to be that way. I love you.

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  33. @ ms moon
    i ve been all over louisianna..spend much time there in new orleans..in atlanta, miami, philly...

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  34. You know I agree it's a slippery slope, but I think after you've given birth to more than 1 crack baby, you loose the right to reproduce, because SOMEBODY else is going to have to care for these children AND they are going to be special needs at best. SO, as a matter of public responsibility, I don't think reproduction should be a right that is just God given and free to everyone. We have a responsibility to each other and the environment. If she wants to abuse herself, that's one thing, but that is clearly not what is going on. Also I don't think these women should be arrested, but detained in a therapy center, and sterilized after the first crack baby! Sorry, I am conservative when it comes to this shit.

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  35. Oh yea, and I also think if you're going to treat yourself like a brood mare, then you give up your "right" to have children. "You need a license to catch a fish, but any butt reaming asshole can be a parent". I disagree that they should be allowed.

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  36. Danielle- Ah. So you know us. At least somewhat. I do live in Florida but please don't think that where I live here is any more like Miami than where you live probably is.

    Ms. Fleur- I agree. Crimes are being committed here. People are being hurt. Innocent people. And I think that quote (from Parenthood, right?) is one of the truest things in the world.

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Tell me, sweeties. Tell me what you think.